ma_testfandomcom-20200214-history
Talk:Star Trek: Insurrection
Continuity During this movie Riker kisses Troi and she says "I've never kissed you with a beard before" or something very similar. However, in the episode they are on Betazed, he has the beard, and they kiss. Where/how should that be referenced here? -- Avron 11:34, 24 Jul 2004 (CEST) ::She also kissed the bearded Thomas Riker, Will Riker's transporter duplicate, in "Second Chances," which is pretty much the same thing as kissing the bearded Will Riker. I've created a section named notes. You can file it there, under separate paragraphs. I suggest making a short note on the article's of Riker and Troi aswell. -- Redge 14:59, 24 Jul 2004 (CEST) They also kiss in Season 6　Episode 3 - Man of the People -- 20:39, June 27, 2013 (UTC) Dominion War I don't understand why Starfleet would have the resources to send its flagship to investigate Data and the Ba'ku when they're right in the middle of the Dominion War. Surely the Enterprise-E would have been essential in the Federation's fight. zsingaya 20:44, 7 Aug 2005 (UTC) ::I always rationalised that the Federation didn't want the Dominion to destroy the Enterprise as it may have been their flagship. A psychological victory it would have been. But then, the Son'a did work for the Dominion so maybe they didn't trust them. Tough Little Ship 20:48, 7 Aug 2005 (UTC) :::There seems to be no reason why the Federation would work with the Son'a, since the Son'a produce keteracel white for the Dominion. It would be like the Federation working with the Breen on a scientific mission right in the middle of the war! I'm sure the Enterprise was used in many skirmishes and attacks during the war, why hold back their trump card when it's really powerful? zsingaya 20:52, 7 Aug 2005 (UTC) ::::Desperate times I guess. Maybe by working with the Son'a the Federation hoped to bring them to their side. Their ships are pretty powerful. Tough Little Ship 20:58, 7 Aug 2005 (UTC) :::::Maybe. I just don't know... Admiral Janeway said it in Star Trek: Nemesis : "...seems like you get all the easy assignments... the Borg, the Son'a, and now the Romulans..." I'm just saying that I think the Federation would probably be desperate for any ships to use against the Dominion. They were even recruiting only-just-warp-capable species into the Federation. I'm sure they'd not thought of the Son'a as ever becoming allies with the Federation. zsingaya 21:03, 7 Aug 2005 (UTC) ::::::Could a "nitpicks" section be added about our discussion? Tough Little Ship 20:12, 25 Sep 2005 (UTC) ::::::Clearly, despite a brief mention of the Dominion War, the writers didn't give any serious thoughts to its ramifications. It makes no sense to send one of your most powerful ships on a diplomatic mission with a species that just discovered warp and surely can't provide military support the equal of the Enterprise in the first place. The excuse for this was that the Federation diplomatic core was busy with Dominion negotiations. What? They were deeply engaged in Chintoka at this point and the idea of pulling out would have been to stab the Klingons and the Romulans in the back. Clearly that would have been really stupid, unless of course the Federation was planning to join the Dominion like Cardassia did.HaganeNoKokoro 04:46, 1 Oct 2005 (UTC) :::::::I believe the only time this movie can take place is during the middle of the DS9 finale "What You Leave Behind." Specifically, after the Federation liberates Cardassia and before the head Changeling signs the treaty ending the war. It's not like they would go from point A to point B. There would have to be major negotiations, and dozens if not hundreds of planets would be involved. Hence, a perfect reason for the diplomatic corps to be tied up. With no more fighting, Starfleet would have no problem sending the Enterprise to put out the fires, so to speak. Also, dialogue seems to indicate the war is over, especially the references to the Dominion. If the Son'a produce Ketracel White, that makes them Dominion allies, a fact confirmed in the DS9 episode "Penumbra." As such, an alliance during the war would be unlikely, even with a lull in the fighting. If the war is over, the alliance is simply dubious, as stated by Troi. And finally, the movie seems to end with the reconciliation of the Son'a and the Ba'ku, implying the end of the Son'a after that. So the DS9 episode where they are mentioned has to take place before the movie. The fact that there's no stardate, or anything to indicate when the film takes place (other than Worf still being on DS9), facilitates its proximity to the DS9 finale. And even a Stardate doesn't mean much, since the First Contact stardate was ignored when placing the second Borg invasion into the chronology.Vader47000 05:23, December 23, 2009 (UTC) I think the lack of a Stardate is relevant to this discussion. For all we know this could be taking place during the lull in the War that we see during . During that episode the Dominion offers to sign a peace treaty with the Federation so it's not unrealistic to suppose their negotiators were tied up then, meaning that some Starships would have other assignments. It's also worth noting that perhaps a "rotation" system was in place allowing the Ent-E time off of the front lines. Logan 5 04:55, 8 Nov 2005 (UTC) Starfleet didn't send the Enterprise to the Briar Patch. Admiral Dougherty simply asked for Data's schematics. The Enterprise was actually supposed to go to Sector 441. After Captain Picard got the call from the admiral during the dinner, he told Geordi that they were going to make a detour to the Briar Patch. Geordi informed the captain that they were in opposite directions, to which Captain Picard said "Are they?" Several lines in the movie state that the Enterprise wasn't fitted for the region and Admiral Dougherty wanted the Enterprise out of the Briar Patch. Willie 10:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC) Sector 441 is the Briar Patch. The Enterprise was supposed to go to the Goran system Vader47000 05:07, December 23, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::This discussion is over four years old, but it could not take place during WYLB because Worf was present during the finale. I don't think the war was "basically over" either, as two sides will often negotiate during wars even while fighting.--31dot 07:33, December 23, 2009 (UTC) cute worm? What is the cute pet worm called? Is there a name for the species? Where can I get pics of it? It was so cute! Please send replies to sonja@kisa.ca as I don't check this Wiki very often. :In the script it was called "a palm-pet, a colorful cross between a caterpillar and a jellyfish". Tough Little Ship 17:32, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC) ::Should an article be made for the "palm-pet"? --From Andoria with Love 17:54, 15 Aug 2005 (UTC) :::I started palm pet.-- 19:31, 17 Aug 2005 (UTC) Quark photo?!? I suppose it's nice that someone was able to upload an image of Quark, and it's all well and good that image is available on the DVD's special features. But since the scene -- which presumably had no substantive plot value, anyway -- was deleted from the movie's final cut, maybe it's worth considering that there are about fifty katrillion images which would be far more relevant to this article, and that Quark has nothing whatsoever to do with this movie. (anon) :Actually, that picture is quite appropriate for the behind-the-scenes information. If it was part of a lengthier summary I'd agree with you, but the scene with Quark is background information and therefore the picture goes with it. Weyoun 04:47, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC) ::Is this article about the background information? Is this article about the DVD? Is this article about special features prepared for the movie? Or is this article about the movie? ::No one claimed that this photograph wasn't included on the DVD. It probably is. But since it was cut and the character never even appeared in the film, it's absolutely ridiculous to include this as one of two images representing the movie in an encyclopedia article. For all practical purposes -- "practical," as distinguished from things which matter to Trekkies -- this image has nothing whatsoever to do with the movie. ::It belongs as much as any background info does on any article. Just like concept art, etc. The rest of the article could use more pictures and details but this one is not out of place. Logan 5 04:55, 8 Nov 2005 (UTC) :::Jesus Christ. You're not talking about a concept drawing for a car that was actually built, or an early storyboard for the film's climactic scene. Your analogy presumes we're talking about a photograph of a main character (say, Captain Picard) taken from a deleted scene — in which case you're still foolish for using that photo instead of one from the 87 scenes that were included in the film, but at least you're talking about a main character. Quark wasn't even a minor character. He wasn't in the film. His photograph has exactly as much background value as a photograph of the key grip, who presumably had a more substantial contribution to the finished product than an actor playing a character that never appeared in the film. ::::Um, it's from a deleted scene that features a main character from another Trek series, and thus would have been a considerable crossover. Since the scene is not on the DVD, but the photo is, the photo itself is extremely relevant as proof. It's placed in the appropriate section, the deleted scenes section. And it's of incredible value and interest to Trek fans, particular DS9 fans, interested in understanding more about the potential crossover, or at the very least about how DS9 got short shrift in the movies. AND, it's probably the most interesting behind the scenes story out there. THe fact the picture is on the page when other photos aren't isn't a reason to remove it. IT'S A REASON TO ADD MORE PHOTOS, if that's what you want.Vader47000 05:30, December 23, 2009 (UTC) :I think that part of the problem is that the page is so incomplete that the picture stands out. Once the page has been completely written, and other photos are included, then the decision can be made as to remove it or leave it there.--AndreMcKay 00:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC) removed I removed a note under "nitpicks" (a section i don't believe even belongs on Memory Alpha) It stated the Riker and Geordi wore their uniforms in error after knowing the captains plot -- With Riker being left in command, he never really had the option to go down to the surface illegally, so he didn't bother changing out of his uniform. Therefore this wasn't a mistake -- and another reason why having a nitpicks section leads to problems --people who don't understand the story perceive problems where none exist. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 05:47, 29 Nov 2005 (UTC) (also, i removed repeated linkages to Federation and USS Enterprise-E - -these terms should only be linked once in the summary and background, not repeatedly for each occurence) -- if you're not sure, try reading Memory Alpha:Manual of Style for how to make links -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk Nitpicks *While cloaking technology is still banned in the Federation, the holoship appears to be equipped with one. ::This isn't really a problem. The mission wasn't exactly above board. And to what extent is cloaking technology banned? Are those cloaked suits illegal too? And besides that, given that this movie probably takes place after the alliance with the Romulans started, it's conceivable that tactical disadvantage was removed. *After first discovering the holoship, Picard and Data engage in a phaser fight with a Son'a guard (presumably the same guard that initially shot Data). They shoot him and he falls off a roof, and then a few seconds later Picard orders the computer to end the program. As Picard and Data are walking out of the ship, the program of the village reverts to the grid behind them, but it is completely empty. At the very least, the wounded Son'a should be on the floor. Was he also part of the program? *Troi claims to have never kissed Riker with a beard before, however she is mistaken because she has at least once, dating back as early as . (She also kissed Riker's transporter duplicate, Thomas Riker, who also had a beard, in .) *When Picard beams aboard the Son'a collector from Ru'afo's ship, the transporter effect is that of Starfleet technology. The effect should have matched that of the Son'a as he was beamed using one of their transporters. *Putting the holoship in the water would have displaced the level of the lake, but the Ba'ku apparently never noticed. Along the same lines, after draining a portion of the lake through the dam to lower the water line to see the ship, the Ba'ku dock never moves. *After flying the Captain's yacht to the planet, no one thinks to use it to help the evacuation of the village. When Data uses it to attack the Son'a ship, it's part of an elaborate subterfuge, even though he could just have easily used it to attack the collector and blow it up. *Why does the collector have a self-destruct? If it was so vital to the Son'a, what scenario did they think of that would necessitate needing to blow it up? *Since the Son'a and Ba'ku are the same race, wouldn't Ru'afo appear as a Ba'ku to the Enterprise-E? If so, why did Riker only beam off Picard? For that matter, why did the Enterprise only detect the Ba'ku (Son'a) and Worf on the Son'a ship? What about the members of the slave races? *The placement of the Captain's Yacht seems to be perilously close to the forward torpedo launcher. I removed the above per the discussion on Ten forward noting that memory alpha is not here for critiquing or nitpicking. --Alan del Beccio 03:05, 9 March 2006 (UTC) *Ruo'afo mentions that the Federation has been challenged by, 'every major power in the quadrent. The three races he lists are all from diffrent quadrents! Borg: Delta, Cardassians: Beta or Alpha and Dominion: Gamma. Damikye ::Again, these are nitpicks, but most can be explained off. First off, Cardassia Prime is in the Alpha Quadrant, the Dominion may have started as a Gamma Quadrant power, but at the point they declared war on the Federation, Cardassians were a member, making the Dominion an Alpha Quadrant power. As for the Borg, the Alpha Quadrant is a BIG place, most of it still has probably not been explored. We do not know the full extent of Borg space, while it is centered in the Delta Quadrant, it is possible that it also extends into the Alpha Quadrant. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:49, 21 August 2006 (UTC) *Need further info on trivia line "While Jupiter appeared in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, its rings were not visible". Jupiter acctually has no rings, saturn does. Was it saturn in de movie? **On the contrary, Jupiter does in fact have rings, they are just usually not visible to the naked eye. Don't believe me? Here is a picture, and a diagram. --OuroborosCobra talk 10:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC) ***OK, Jupiter has a ring, but it is not commonly referred to as a "ringed planet." The rings also aren't visible without specialized equipment. I think the reference here just engenders confusion, and should just be removed altogether. -Randy 20:35, 16 August 2008 (UTC) **There is no reason to pander to an ill-informed public. If anything, this is an opportunity to educate. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC) ***If that's the case, perhaps ring info should be ADDED to the Jupiter page somehow. That way if someone checks, it'll be there. -Randy 20:59, 16 August 2008 (UTC) **That would be difficult to do. It cannot be added to the canon portion of the article specifically because they weren't seen in canon. I can't see what context to add it to the background portion either. It makes sense in this article, but not necessarily in the other. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC) Female Trill officer The conn officer throughout this movie is a female trill, however the actress is not listed in the credits and I cant see her in the list in the article. Anyone know who she is? Wheatleya 14:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC) :She is listed in the article, Stephanie Niznik as Kell Perim. --Jörg 14:47, 13 April 2007 (UTC) :Yeah, just read her article, thanks. Wheatleya 14:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC) Ellora & Evora *:Although the Ellora were never mentioned again, several members of the species were seen in the DS9's final episode, . Someone change Evora to Ellora but I just finished the episode and only saw 1''' alien that could have possibly been an Evora and not one that was an Ellora. Anyone else confirm this and we can fix the bg note? — Morder 02:18, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :It should be Evora, they are supposed to be present at the treaty signing, or something. There's no good reason that I can think of for an Ellora to be there. --OuroborosCobra talk 02:21, 16 January 2009 (UTC) HMS Pinafore: An oblique reference to The Simpsons? This is certainly OR, but Cape Feare, a 5th-season episode of the Simpsons (aired in 1993) has Bart ask Sideshow Bob to sing the entire score of HMS Pinafore, as a means of delaying his death and distracting Sideshow Bob. The use of HMS Pinafore as a distraction bear a significant resemblance to this episode. Anyone else notice this? 11:29, 17 January 2009 (UTC) Poster I've never been entirely sure what the face in the poster was. Is it supposed to be Ru'afo, with his face stretched? The angle is so odd that I can't tell for certain. —Josiah Rowe 05:15, 13 May 2009 (UTC) :Definitely some Son'a. --OuroborosCobra talk 06:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC) but stated in interviews that he felt it was a film that Gene Roddenberry would have appreciated. I guarantee he wouldn't. This movie undermined everything Roddenberry's Federation stood for. :What is the point of this unsigned anon? — Morder (talk) 08:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC) Memorable Quotes I added a series of quotes, of Ru'afo's numerous exclamations of "NOOOO..." and describing each situation. The third and final one was cut off in the middle, as Ru'afo is engulfed in the explosion. They were removed, I put them back, and then they were removed again, with the note: "not remotely encyclopaedic, not memorable, just silly, and we don't do silly" Really? You know, actually, I have seen numerous pages with "NOOOOO" quotations in the memorable quotes section, and was surprised to not see them on the Insurrection page. Off the top of my head, I know the page for the DS9 episode "In the Hands of the Prophets" has it. I thought the memorable quotes section was made to be silly, that it's where you go to laugh (at or with) the movie. To be honest, I've found many quotations that aren't just jokes in the script, but that poke fun at the writing: the DS9 episode "Explorers" has a quote of "'Hammock time!' 'Yo!'" the VOY episode "Basics, Part I" has "Work on The Doctor with it," so since when has the quotes section been such a grave enterprise? Isn't it supposed to be fun? I Love Doctors 23:00, 19 August 2009 (UTC) :I would suggest you review MA:QUOTE for what valid memorable quotes should be, but basically, they are for quotes that have a partiularly significant meaning, and are not merely to document something funny or silly. Seeing other similar quotes elsewhere does not necessarily mean they are valid, it just means they haven't been addressed yet. This prevents the Quotes sections from becoming too long, and also prevents debate about what is and is not appropriate. If you feel that the criteria for memorable quotes should be changed, feel free to discuss it on that policy's talk page.--31dot 00:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC) :Regarding the quotes themselves, I happen to agree with the removal and the reasoning.--31dot 00:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC) Well then let me quote those rules you have just linked: "If you come across a quote that has disputed memorability, do not simply remove the quote, but copy it to the article's talk page and discuss it there." I understand your reservation, I personally thought more of the entertainment of the formatting--putting all three next to each other, with the third getting truncated (enough is enough)--but I mean, there is an irreverent mockery to a LOT of this encyclopedia ("IT'S A FAAAAAAAKE!") A lot of it is funny in this sense, and that's what I wanted to add to this page. I Love Doctors 00:52, 20 August 2009 (UTC) Removed Removed Nitpicks & uncited similarities: * The tagline "The Battle for Paradise has Begun" is very similar to the tagline "The Battle for Peace has Begun". * The plot bears similarity to , in which Worf and his adopted brother use a holodeck to migrate a civilization without its knowledge. * It also resembles , in which the Enterprise crew becomes involved in a plot to discover the secret to immortality among two primitive, warring factions. * Data says that he can serve as a flotation device here, but in , Geordi tells a story of how Data once sank to the bottom of a lake and was forced to walk underwater on the bottom for hours in order to get out. One might surmise that the flotation device was installed due to this incident. * When Data goes underwater to get tricorder readings, Artim asks Picard if he could hold his breath long enough down there and Picard responds that Data doesn't breathe. In , Dr. Bashir notices Data breathing and Data tells Bashir that he does have a functional respiratory system, but rather than drawing oxygen from the air, it functions as part of his cooling system. However, Data explained in the same conversation that he was capable of operating in a vacuum for a protracted period of time, indicating that his internal cooling systems are capable of functioning without air for some time. Also, he could have been using the water around him for cooling. * Although Troi says to Riker that she never kissed him with a beard before, they kiss rather passionately in the Season 3 episode . She also kisses his counterpart Thomas Riker with a beard in Season 6 episode . There are also other times where it is implied that they kiss. * On the Holoship when Picard orders the computer to end the program there is no Son'a soldier even though the area he fell to is clearly visible behind Picard and Data. (It is possible that the soldier himself was a hologram with the safeties off, which would also explain why his phaser blasts have no effect on the holographic surroundings when it is clear normal phasers would affect them.) The following should be on the relevant pages, if not already: * The design of the Tarlac was based on lions, the Ellora on triceratops. Both make-ups left the T-zone of the face – the eyes, nose and mouth area – mostly untouched in order to retain the natural beauty of the actresses playing the body shop females. The male Tarlac, however, wore prosthetic nose pieces. * Data's Federation mission scoutship was loosely based on the starship. It appeared in the game Star Trek: Armada II, where it was labelled as the Venture-class. * The Cousteau was named for at Patrick Stewart's urging.--31dot 11:01, October 8, 2009 (UTC) Also removed, as an uncited similarity: The opening credits share a similarity to (and part of and very briefly in ) in that the post-title card credits are not shown over a star-field.--31dot 11:19, November 1, 2009 (UTC) Removed an additional uncited similarity: *The root situation in this film of non-indigenous inhabitants of a planet being evicted by the Federation is similar to the plot in the TNG Season 7 episode , except in that instance Picard actually followed his orders and angrily rebuked Wesley Crusher for attempting to sabotage the evacuation.--31dot 15:28, January 16, 2011 (UTC) Searching an image I am searching for an image from a deleted scenes. I remember I once saw this image but don't know where it was. It shows Quark accompanied by two dabo girls. Anyone seen this image and know where? Thanks. – Tom 20:50, October 8, 2009 (UTC) Voyager set? Is there any source that states Councillor Troi's office is a redressed Janway's readyroom? Some of the panelling on the walls looks exactly the same.--A Pickering 16:27, August 21, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, its the same set. -Angry Future Romulan 20:01, August 21, 2010 (UTC) :wow!-- 11:01, August 16, 2012 (UTC) Citation needed I removed the following (referring to director Jonathan Frakes), which has lacked a citation for some years now : * While he did record a commentary track for the 2005 special edition DVD,the track was not included on the release. –Cleanse ( talk | ) 11:06, February 15, 2011 (UTC) Quotes removed Removed the following per MA:QUOTE: "Federation support, Federation procedures, Federation rules...look in the mirror, Admiral; the Federation is OLD! In the past twenty-four months, they've been challenged by every major power in the quadrant: the Borg, the Cardassians, the Dominion. They all smell the scent of death on the Federation! That's why you've embraced our offer, because it will give your dear Federation new life. Well, how badly do you want it, Admiral? Because there are hard choices to be made NOW. If the ''Enterprise gets through with news of their brave captain's valiant struggle on behalf of the defenseless Ba'ku, your Federation politicians will waver, your Federation opinion polls will open up PUBLIC DEBATE, your Federation allies will want THEIR say...need I go on?''" : - '''Ru'afo, venting his disdain for the Federation "Nice beadwork." : - Troi, on Picard's ceremonial headpiece "I don't know how they do it on Deep Space Nine, but on the ''Enterprise, we still report for duty on time." : - '''Picard' to Worf, who is late "Come out, come out, wherever you are..." : - Picard, softly singing while waiting for Data to appear "Mister Worf, do you know Gilbert and Sullivan?" "No, sir. I have not had a chance to meet all of the new crewmembers since I have been back." "They're composers, Worf. From the nineteenth century." : - Picard and Worf "I wonder if you are aware of the trust you engender, Jean-Luc Picard." : - Anij "Can he breathe underwater?" "Data doesn't breathe." "Won't he rust?" "No." : - Artim and Picard, after Data walks into a lake "We have the planet, they have the technology. Technology we can't duplicate. You know what that makes us? Partners." "Our - partners - are nothing more than petty thugs." "On Earth, petroleum once turned petty thugs into world leaders. Warp drive transformed a bunch of Romulan thugs into an empire. We can handle the Son'a! I'm not worried about that." "Someone probably said the same thing about the Romulans a century ago." : - Dougherty to Picard, on the regenerative properties of metaphasic particles "Okay, Data. What do you think we should do?" "Saddle up. Lock and load!" : - Crusher and Data --31dot 12:45, December 11, 2011 (UTC)